2021–NSR Formula 86/89

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  • #15743
    BarkingSpyderBarkingSpyder
    Participant

    This is the head thread of the series discussion for 2021 – NSR Formula 86/89

    "Come On! Lets go space trucking!" Deep Purple

    #15744
    BarkingSpyderBarkingSpyder
    Participant

    SOURCES
    Athough not officially approved as a series yet, (@11/30/20) many members seem interested in the NSR Formula 86/89 cars as a 2021 series.

    The cars are available from many popular retailers: Pendle, Electric Dreams, CloverLeaf, LEB Hobbies
    CloverLeaf: White & Test $63 Decorated $70 (many liveries) Spares-limited
    LEB Hobbies: White & Test $70 Decorated $77 (many liveries) Spares- $1~2 higher than others
    Power Hobbies: White & Test $70 Decorated $75 – 85. Spares-limited
    Professor Motor: White & Test $70 Decorated $85 – 95. Spares-moderate
    Electric Dreams: White $75 Test $80 Decorated $90-100. Spares-extensive, some higher than others; many DECALS available for Test cars.
    PendleSlot: US prices are competitive with Electric Dreams. Liveries & Spares-extensive
    ….
    SCC – no current stock @11/30
    132slotcar.US – no current stock @11/30

    "Come On! Lets go space trucking!" Deep Purple

    #15745
    BarkingSpyderBarkingSpyder
    Participant

    NSR Formula 86-89 REVIEWS




    "Come On! Lets go space trucking!" Deep Purple

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by BellatorBellator.
    #15746
    BarkingSpyderBarkingSpyder
    Participant


    DISCUSSION POINT – WHEELS & TIRES

    Once this series has been approved and a series-manager confirmed; I think we should discuss wheel choices.
    During unboxing the rear wheels appear “tiny” and in fact the OEM wheels NSR5021(13d x 10w) have a 10mm diameter rim with a max OD of 13mm at the ribs. [Upgrades NSR5022 (13d x 13w), NSR5026 (13d x 13w drilled)] This is smaller than NSR’s legacy F1-rims, NSR5005 with a 14mm OD at the rib (12mm width).

    Several reviews of the NSR Formula 86-89 cars mention this size difference as having a potential risk of rear-pan contact with the track (in climbs/drops). Basically if the rear tires are trued under a certain diameter, the end of the chassis may drag against the track in sections that are not flat.

    It appears that the axle for the Formula 86/89 cars is the standard NSR sub-3/32 size[1]; and it appears larger OD tires would not interfere with the body, therefore it does not appear to be a hard *technical* reason why the NSR5005 14mm OD rims could *not be used.

    NOTE: We previously used these rims and compatible tires (5220) on the 2016 Formula series (the NSR wheels were the same dimensions as the AllSlots). So members who raced the Allslot race in 2016 may have some leftover spare wheels and tires.
    ……….
    [1] NSR and Thunderslot Axles = 2.37mm (2.99/32in)

    "Come On! Lets go space trucking!" Deep Purple

    #15747
    chapracer65chapracer65
    Participant

    My preference would be to use the stock supergrip tires.  I like having the Goodyear Eagle sidewalls, for more realism.  It would also save members from having to buy more parts, including inserts.

    Russell

    #15748
    porsche917porsche917
    Moderator

    I agree with Russell.  I would like to keep this series as stock as possible to give everyone time to get used to the cars and save some money.  I would suggest stock everything except screws, braid, motor wire and gearing.  People can choose to upgrade the front and rear wings for the bendable versions but that is it.

    Gearing could be an issue as NSR only produces the stock black 27th as well as a 25t and a 24t in-line crown gear.  I don’t know of anyone who manufactures an in-line crown gear for the NSR axle diameter.  I have not run the cars so I don’t know if the stock gear is adequate or if a lower gear is necessary.  It’s crazy that there is not a 26t crown available from NSR.

    I would vote for everything stock except for:  1) a specified tire for front and rear, 2)body and pod screws open choice, 3)braid open choice, 4)motor wire open choice, 5)any NSR crown and pinion gears.

    Thoughts?

     

    #15749
    AvatarALEREAL3D
    Participant

    I will love to race the F1 myself if decided by the majority to schedule the race later in 2021

     

    #15771
    BarkingSpyderBarkingSpyder
    Participant

    In general I agree with the “stock” spec, except with the chassis clearance issues I mentioned above. Tire issues seem to be a recurring challenge and while I don’t want to have a situ. where people are spending a fortune on tires to be *competitive … we have had more than one series where many of us did spend lots of money trying to get good sets of tires, just so our car was not a dawg spinning on marbled or nippled rubber.

    In this case, if the tires wear down to a point where the pan is contacting the track, I don’t want to be replacing tires every round (or every other round).

    I would like to get input from John and Dave and whoever else actually has a 86/89 they can test and provide solid feedback.

    Gear Options:
    OEM 27/10 = 2.7 21,400/2.7 = 7,926
    24/9 = 2/67 = 8,015
    25/10 = 2.5 8,560
    ….
    compared to a hypothetical 26z crown
    26/10 = 2.6 8,231
    26/9 = 2.89 = 7,405

    "Come On! Lets go space trucking!" Deep Purple

    #15772
    porsche917porsche917
    Moderator

    I know we have all but finalized the decision to run the NSR F1 series due to the time they have been in market and the availability of cars and parts and I am all for running the NSR cars but this was posted today on Policars Facebook page.

    #15797
    BarkingSpyderBarkingSpyder
    Participant

    SETUP NOTE – NSR FORMULA 86/89
    Another oddity[1] with this car is:

    As you will find out, the front axle height grub/allen screws are M2 (2mm diameter, 2mm length same as Slot.IT) and not the typical 4-40 (0.05 wrench head[2]) screws. Your car may come with a small bag containing the M2 screws.
    There does appear to be enough meat to drill and tap the axle carrier section to use 4-40s.

    [1] Other variations from NSR traditions: [a] 13mm diameter (at the rib/nib) wheels vs. the 14mm already in NSRs product line; –new tires to fit the new size wheels. [b] (as mentioned by 917) crowns are limited to 24, 25, 27 (missing a 26z?!)
    [d] flexible/no-tear/crashproof parts do Not include the front suspension?!? // the good news is this part is cosmetic and does not contain the axle carrier./

    [2] Diameter: 0.112inch * 25.4 = 2.84mm

    "Come On! Lets go space trucking!" Deep Purple

    #15799
    BarkingSpyderBarkingSpyder
    Participant

    PCAR07 Generic Modern F1; $65 pre-order
    [1] Contains the multi-stage ‘transmission’ to allow a FF motor to be installed under the svelte body.
    Similar to existing Policar and Scalextric drive trains.

    Inline FF slim-can 25k motor (same size as existing Policar and Scalextric Formula cars)
    Drive Train: 9T brass pinion / 25/16T plastic stepdown / 17T brass crown
    Wheels – 11.5x20mm fronts, 14.5x20mm rears
    Wheel base 108mm Weight 58g

    PRO
    — pretty, modern shape, includes halo
    — FF motor with 1.5mm shaft, can be downgraded (18k) or upgraded (30k) with motors from ScaleAuto, Scalextric, Policar, Professor Motor
    CON
    — Motor not similar to our other series.
    — Based on my experience with the FF motors they are not always very available (lots of Not In Stock)
    — 1.5mm Motor shaft has limited Pinions available (but 1.5 to 2mm sleeves are available)
    — Wheels and tires may have very limited upgrades or alternatives
    — Perhaps would need to be closed Brand series/class; may not be competitive with the NSR or AllSlot formula cars.

    Rear Wheel RPM Estimates
    25,000 / (25/9) = 25,000 / 2.7777 = 9,000 //25,000*(9/25) = 25,000*0.36= 9,000
    9,000 * (16/25) = 9,000*0.64 = 5,760
    5,760 * (17/16) = 5,760*1.062 = 6,117 ?? REAR WHEEL

    "Come On! Lets go space trucking!" Deep Purple

    #15801
    chapracer65chapracer65
    Participant

    About the rear tires of the NSR Formula cars, I don’t see a problem with the stock assembly.  There seems to be plenty of  clearance out of the box, although I have not trued them yet.  There is much more clearance than with the Thunderslot cars.  Unless the tire formula has changed, there is a lot of history with the NSR Supergrip tires; we have used them in the past, as well as the softer Ultragrip tires.

    Russell

    #15803
    porsche917porsche917
    Moderator

    The stock tires have plenty of clearance even after truing.  NSR’s SuperGrip tires have always worked well on our track and in some quick testing of my car I don’t see any reason to spec anything other than the stock tires.

    #15810
    BarkingSpyderBarkingSpyder
    Participant

    NSR Formula 86-89 – Setup Phase-1
    Sat Dec 12 I unboxed my NSR F 86/89 to see what challenges may be in the setup process.

    GUIDE – the OEM guide is snap-in and has a short blade. I took out the slop with two Teflon spacers; during testing the guide performed fine.

    FRONT AXLE ASSEMBLY
    Tires and Wheels: The good news, the tires are heavy enough that nose ballast does not appear to be needed. The bad news, they have the typical NSR molding blisters, which may not be able to be totally removed from truing. The NSR Wheels use a 2.37mm (2.9858/32 inch) axle and hence I could not fit them on the large $400 double-truer.

    I took out the fore-aft slop using 3mm axle sleeves. At first I tried some Slot.IT spherical bushings; they had a groove to snap into, but had resistance sliding vertically and did not stay in the uprights consistently. Bad News: The axle uprights are noticeably angled in (negative camber) which may add some binding.

    Axle Height:
    The axle uprights use M2 allen/grubs for axle height. These are Not the typical 4-40/3mm grubs used in other NSR chassis. The shipped 2mm(L)x2mm(D) screws are tiny so I threw them into my collection of Slot.IT grubs. I used 7mm SlotCarCorner oval-head M2s for the bottom adjustment (5 or 6mm would also be Fine); and 4mm for the uppers. The fit is *tight and takes patience to get the screws deep enough.
    On my setup block, in the 0.015 cut, I flew the tires 1/2mm over track-height. Since our track is not perfectly consistent I cross-checked the height with my 0.025 cut, and they flew appx 1/4mm above track-height.
    NOTE: The holes are very tight and a 0.91m torque-wrench may ratchet before you reach the desired depth. I had to use my NSR solid-shaft 0.91. The axle height process took at least 15 minutes to reach Goldilocks status.

    WINGS AND BODY PARTS ETC
    I pro-actively bought the no-tear flexible parts kit. I can’t really see any difference between these and the OEM wings; so I left the wings alone. The body parts are “electronically welded” and appear very secure. Only problem, if they come off in a wreck the anchor posts will come off with the part.

    Round Steering Wheel
    As some have noticed, the steering wheel is disappointingly a spindly generic round version. Some people may want to scratch-build a steering wheel from styrene, or suitable static model rectangular parts.
    I don’t think there are many cockpit part kits with modern F1 steering wheels – for Scalextric or Carerra. AllSlot used to have a cockpit parts kit; but these don’t seem to be available.
    ?? Maybe Russ or Marc can make some up? : )

    GEARS
    The OEM gears seem to have a good mesh and are noticeably quiet. The calculated rear-wheel-RPM is 21,400/(27/10) = 21,400/2.7 = 7,926 @12volts.
    Other Gear Options: 25/9 = 2.78 = 7,698 24/9 = 2.67 = 8,015 25/10 = 2.5 = 8,560

    REAR TIRES
    Again these use smaller wheels (13mm Dia) than the ‘standard’ NSR F1 tires offered as replacements for other brands. Visually they still look very similar in size. Because of the smaller axle I could not true them (yet) – surprisingly they were relatively True out-of-the-box and handled very well.
    Minor Issue: The sidewall brand letters flake off quickly.

    PERFORMANCE
    At 11 volts the car was very stable in the corners; but the speed felt “sedate”. With a calc’ed wheel RPM of 7,266 (7926 x (11/12)) the perception seems spot-on.
    At 12 volts the car was still very stable; and it’s overall speed seemed moderately faster than at 11v, yet not as dramatic as would be expected with a jump from 7,263 to 7,923 RPM. Best laps were 4.3-4.2 but that should improve with trued tires and after everything else is “broke-in”.

    "Come On! Lets go space trucking!" Deep Purple

    #15884
    BarkingSpyderBarkingSpyder
    Participant

    TIRES
    The stock/OEM Formua 86/89 tires are very tight out-of-the-box; they do not seem to require gluing.

    "Come On! Lets go space trucking!" Deep Purple

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BarkingSpyder

BarkingSpyder

I like any kind of racing and vehicles, from F1 to Moto-X to Tractor-Pulls. My first solder-iron was a Christmas gift at 9yo; I modified T-Jets to be AFX HO cars before the AFX line was in local stores; rebuilt a few tractor & car engines plus transmissions by 15yo. Still have my ring-compressor and valve spring tool. Former mountain and road bike geek - perennial sound engineer.