Tagged: Parc Ferme
- April 27, 2019 at 9:52 AM #13930
Starting with Thunderslot Race #2, we will be implementing a park ferme for the races. Once you car has go through tech and has passed, the car will be placed in park ferme. You will NOT have access to the car until you start your heats. Once your race is complete, you will place the car back into park ferme until the race is over. If you finish your heat and you are on an out rotation, the car will be placed back into park ferme until your next heat. During the race, you may clean your tires, adjust body float, or repair your car. Car repair is the ONLY reason for your car to go back to the pits. Car repair is ONLY for break fix. No tuning will be allowed at all. If you have a question as to what break fix means please let me know or the series manager. Anyone found to be in violation of the policy will be disqualified from the race and their results removed.
May 11, 2019 at 6:30 PM #14034StabnSteerParticipant
- This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by turboman93.
Now that we’ve had some in-practice experience with this process, and in judging from some of the heady discussions during events related to this process, it seems that some examination is warranted regarding this rule. The idea of a “Break Fix” as mentioned in the initial rule appears to be too broad to define and leaves the term open for interpretation – as discussions at events have shown.
I spent some time zipping around the web reading the racing rules posted by other clubs and I found that trying to identify what is allowed to be done to cars between the start and end of the event is rarely attempted, probably because these clubs have also found it impossible to create a consistent list of rules regarding what is and is not allowable.
The bulk of rules specify that once the car enters tech, it remains in control of the scrutineer and will reside in parc rotisserie (in our case!) until the beginning of the racer’s heat. Once the racer begins their heat, they may make any changes they like to the car during their heat period within the rules for car preparation, including during the lane change period. Immediately after completing their final heat, the car must be placed back into parc rotisserie where the scrutineer may choose to re-tech any car at their discretion. Racers regain control of their cars once the scrutineer has announced that post-race tech is closed. I would also suggest that the scrutineer is tasked to be available after the event to hear tech requests from any member against any car in the event. I’d rather these requests be on a gentleman’s agreement rather than requiring payment as many clubs require…but that would be something to discuss.
In our races, because we only have 3 lanes, there are cases where racers begin the event, then sit out for a number of rounds before returning to complete their race. For these racers, they must return their car to parc rotisserie immediately at the end of their session prior to their break, and can begin work on their cars during the lane-change period immediately prior to their return to the track.
This design keeps us from having to come up with a handful of “allowable” things people can do to their cars during the races or during the lane change periods. I believe that trying to maintain any such handful of allowable items will only end up in hurt feelings due to a lack of consistency in applying the rules. Requiring cars to go immediately to parc rotisserie after their final heat keeps any “undoing” of changes to be performed. Green flag work on a car, regardless of the result of that work, is its own penalty. If someone can legally tweak their car in the lane change periods, more power to them with the knowledge that they may have a scrutineer have a look-around at the end of the event. I would suggest that we be a bit more on-point with completing the lane change periods in the allotted amount of time.
If someone is genuinely afraid that racers will be making performance mods to their cars during the first lane change period, then removing those during the second lane change period, I challenge you to come up with a race plan where 2 poor heats and 1 good heat comes out a positive, given how competitive our racing is. And mainly, I would like any rules we put in-force to have the ability to keep us all friends – which would be a challenge when a rule is open to different interpretations.
That’s my $1.25 (because 2 cents just doesn’t cut it anymore). Written here so that we’ll have something specific to discuss and vote upon in a future meeting, or to kick-off discussion here that will eventually make it to a vote.
--Stabn'SteerMay 11, 2019 at 10:42 PM #14035Lotus jr.Participant
Very objective and very well said. As you said: I would like any rules put in force to have the ability to keep us all friends, which would a challenge when a rule is open to different interpretations.May 12, 2019 at 7:10 PM #14041
My $1.27. First the only time I have witnessed a conscious (and observable) attempt to cheat in our club was with Bobby in 2017, therefore I am not sure what current problem the new rules are meant to solve. That being said, Parc Ferme is a well established standard in 1×1 racing of almost all types, and very common (from what I can tell via the interweb) practice among other slot-car sanctioning bodies and clubs. Conclusion – it’s a common and beneficial best-practice that No current ASCC member should have any “problem” with (as long as its practiced consistently with common sense!)
Also, in many 1×1 racing, post-race inspection is common when certain racers or cars seem to consistently dominate (by significant metrics) a race or series (these often lead to rules changes due to advantages discovered by a team who ‘meets the legal definition’ of the rules, yet is clever enough to implement advantageous technology or techniques not Explicitly prohibited in the rules). Let’s never forget that the original point of inspection and Parc-Ferme rules is to facilitate fairness and prevent overt and significant advantages not openly available to all club members. Likewise, the reality is that some racers are smarter or more precise than others and/or may have lucked into a “god car” that out performs the pack.
To address some of Erik’s points, I suggest that if someone has a significant repair to do during a Round, they have to request from the Series Manager (or inspector if that was a different person) (a) if the repair is allowed, and (b) a request for extended Lane-change period to complete the repair. The Series Manager can approve/reject the request and set a time for the repair to be completed. Ideally the Series Manager should observe the repair. Obviously this decision should be made based on criteria to (a) allow fairness for the racer to have a chance to continue in the Round, (b) fairness and reasonableness for the other racers (e.g. repairs cannot significantly delay the completion of the Round). Finally – ONLY the Series Manager can make these decisions. If another racer wants to protest the decision, that should occur After the round is complete (I suggest no fee for the protest). A post-race inspection should be expected by the racer who made the change.
Also to Erik’s points, if it’s possible to document criteria for these decisions, we could do so (it’s tedious but not impossible) – or we can just continue with the current approach of letting the Series Manager exercise their judgement and responsibility without killing ourselves with endless what-if scenarios.
FINALLY-Guys – remember that we are in theory racing for FUN, not fame or fortune 🙂
Let’s not take things too-serious or it will be like enforcing PGA rules on a 9-hole-Scramble golf game!
... she's got real fat tyres and everything !!! ... Deep Purple Hiway StarMay 13, 2019 at 1:18 AM #14054
I would first like to say yes I have an account on these forums!
Second I love parc ferme I also feel like adding the new rules should be flexible enough that we should say that idea did not work if it is not working.
Marc I don’t understand this line “So, if inspection and Parc-Ferme rules are used to penalize a racer/car in the middle or back of the leaderboard, the question should be asked “why?” Primarily the use of the word penalize. I don’t know how everyone being in the same boat could be seen as a penalty to any driver. I am a clear middle packer these days, I fully welcome the addition of Parc Ferme. I don’t feel like since I am not as fast as someone else that I should have an advantage of taking my car out of parc ferme and working on it in my off heats if anything it is completely unfair to someone who starts in anything but the first heat as they don’t have time to work on the car for an extended amount of time. I have had a car break right before the race and still raced all three heats with the car I got inspected.
I fully plan to call out anyone who does not put their car in parc ferme, it is not persecution against anyone, in particular, I called out 2 people that did not put their car in Parc Ferme this weekend Marc and Marty I assume both were an unintentional slip. As far as changes to the rules I think we are going to bring that up when we are grouped back up in the near future I think is better to have the discussion on things of this nature in person.
Sorry for my rambling typing
"If everything seems under control you're just not going fast enough" - Mario AndrettiMay 13, 2019 at 10:57 AM #14057
Also, I would like to add that it would be in everyone’s self-interest to have their car ready to race by the time 1 pm rolls around. If you are not sure you can get there early enough to make sure your car is good by 1 pm I would suggest not doing anything extensive between your last test session and race day.
"If everything seems under control you're just not going fast enough" - Mario AndrettiMay 13, 2019 at 11:44 AM #14058
Steve good comments. My replies:
— “Penalize” comment – I removed it since after reading it today, in the context it does not make sense, and to explain what I was thinking at the time would take too long and probably be mis-understood. I certainly do Not think Parc Ferme as a practice is a penalty at all; its a preventative measure and also helps reduce late race starts.
— I think it would be good to clearly Announce a specific time that all cars should be in Parc Ferme, which should probably be 5 minutes before green light (enough time for a bathroom break). If you can’t make the cutoff you cannot compete and are relegated to marshal duty.
— Callout – I agree that anyone should be able to alert the Series Manager that Parc Ferme practice was not followed, and that it could be grounds for an automatic post-race inspection (at discretion of the SM). I suggest that any DQs or time penalties occur after the inspection.
— Crap Happens – Yep if a car breaks mid-race the racer can pull out and request a breakfix, or choose to limp on (as long as their car is not presenting a clear danger to other racers/cars (e.g. wheels or screws flying off etc.) The SM should make the decision on what repairs can be allowed, should monitor the repair in real time, and keep repairs less than 5 minutes.
P.S. In a related thread, I discovered the source of my wheel hop/chop this weekend,
... she's got real fat tyres and everything !!! ... Deep Purple Hiway StarMay 13, 2019 at 3:37 PM #14066
Correct me if I am incorrect but once Tech opens you have 15 mins to get it to the Series manager and then the car goes into Parc Ferme.
"If everything seems under control you're just not going fast enough" - Mario Andretti
May 16, 2019 at 2:49 PM #14070
- This reply was modified 1 year ago by Mitleid.
Technically True – so as part of the “race control” team you could remind the Series Manager to announce that – and it would help you get the software ready and not waste your time waiting on the rest of us 🙂
I guess it comes down to how consistently rigid we want to be in enforcing our written rules.
IMHO – it may help us to be a little more consistent, unless it’s pointless or irritating.
** Certainly – when someone has told you they Need to leave at a certain time or want to rotate in first (b/c of a family obligation or similar event) we should all help the guy out by adhering to our standard schedule.
... she's got real fat tyres and everything !!! ... Deep Purple Hiway StarMay 18, 2019 at 11:41 AM #14076
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